Deceptive Debt
At Red Alert, David Cunliffe blogs that he thinks that National is being deceptive about New Zealand’s international debt problem. It is slightly worrying that Mr Cunliffe (who is Labour’s financial spokesperson and is therefore supposed to be financially literate) thinks this, because there is no doubt that Standard and Poor is very concerned about it, even if he is not. Apparently, his argument is that most of the debt load is private, rather than public:
“Before the quake, National would have you believe that New Zealand had a huge international debt problem, and that the solution to that was for the Government to compress spending and services to pay down this debt.
“It was always a half truth: 90% of that debt is private debt and only 10% of it is public (government) debt.”
Unfortunately, Mr. Cunliffe fails to understand that a decade of profligate government spending driven by Labour has caused the private debt blow-out.
Spending creates debt.
”Governments often forget that they are not earning money, but taking it from taxpayers. As government tax-take increases, so the amount of discretionary cash in the private system drops. I emphasise the discretionary part, because it is sometimes overlooked that a relatively small increase in overall taxation can be a substantial drain on the amount of money left over from day-to-day running. This pool of money is relatively small compared to overall turnover and a small increase in taxation (as in fiscal drag) can be very significant. This is the pool of money we use to buy non-essentials. It is also the pool of money used for savings and, often, through savings, to pay for larger purchases.
Thus when a government over-taxes people (the true meaning of the word surplus), people turn to debt to finance their holidays and new cars more often than before. Overdrafts are created for temporary needs and never closed. Credit card debt mushrooms. All because we try to maintain our lifestyles on less discretionary income. Businesses finance new capital expenditure instead of paying for it out of profits – or they finance it over longer periods at less favorable rates. Private debt balloons.
If this overtaxation is used simply to pay down governments debt – the usual justification from Labour – then the overall financial position of the country changes little. Debt moves from government to private industry and the consumer. This is what Labour usually means by leaving the “books in strong shape”, to use Cunliffe’s words – Government debt is low. Unfortunately, this is a piece of nonsense. The “books” were in appalling shape because the government was spending more than it was receiving in tax, despite the overtaxation continuing. This is the inevitable result of government overspending – it grows like a bacterial culture, drinking up all surpluses. Government overspending always makes a nation’s debt situation deteriorate – both public and private debt.
The story from Labour is that the $300 million a week that is currently being borrowed is something to do with tax cuts. This is clearly drivel. The government was borrowing this amount before the tax cuts and did not increase borrowing on their account. The tax cuts were not cuts at all but “rebalancing” – whatever that means. The GST increase supposedly paid for them. Government tax inputs were essentially unchanged.
The real reason why the government continues to borrow at an alarming rate is that government expenditure exceeds the total tax take. There are only two ways to deal with that. Increase the tax take or decrease government expenditure. Labour would do the first, ensuring that the mushrooming of private debt continues unabated. National talk about the latter (but have done precious little to date). This is a much better solution but actually requires action.
Sadly, it appears unlikely that Labour’s finance spokesperson has any grasp of this at all. Witness the idiocy of his rhetorical question:
“Why then was the international debt pile so huge that reducing it by slashing Government spending and prolonging the recession was necessary a month ago, but borrowing the lot is no problem now?”
Apart from the silly suggestion that reducing government spending prolongs a recession (when it is clear that excessive government spending put us into a recession six months before the debt crisis sealed it), it seems that Mr. Cunliffe does not understand the difference between capital expenditure (as in rebuilding Christchurch) and operational expenditure (as in Working for Families and interest-free student loans). Capital expenditure on expensive projects is always financed by debt. Only a moron would attempt to pay for it directly out of taxes. That is why National are comfortable borrowing this money and very uncomfortable introducing a new tax for it. Increased taxation for such a capital project is a very inefficient way of doing things and is much more likely to prolong the recession than is slashing government expenditure. Cunliffe should know that, but he is too ideologically bound to socialist ideals.
Spending creates debt. The only way one can spend without creating debt is to use savings. Frankly, the only way the government can finance the rebuild of Christchurch without creating debt is to liquidate the $12.5 billion in the Cullen fund. And the sooner, the better.
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Mar 9 11 8:10 pm
I don’t know whether he is stupid, deceitful, or both..
Mar 10 11 8:10 am
David B, I suspect being both stupid and deceitful are prerequisites for being a Labour MP. Just look at them. Seriously.
Mar 10 11 9:56 am
it seems that Mr. Cunliffe does not understand the difference between capital expenditure (as in rebuilding Christchurch) and operational expenditure
Not unusual. It was once pointed out to me that the total student debt was the same size as the govt surplus at the time. He was firm in the belief that this was direct evidence that the government had use student debt to create their surplus in some way.
scrubone´s last [type] ..Quote of the day – Outdated political lines edition
Mar 10 11 1:53 pm
Clear, succinct and totally accurate. Why can’t the socialists and their acolytes understand this!
Some would argue of course that if the top tax wasn’t reduced then there wouldn’t have been the need to borrow the 300 million.
Mar 10 11 1:59 pm
When I think about it my statement is self-defeating. To the socialists/statists/labour goons there is the basic belief that there should be no private money. People should not borrow for anything because the state is going to give to everyone what they need. Actually wanting anything above what the state will supply is a symptom on mental illness and that the person needs re-education.
Mar 14 11 11:56 am
Frankly, the only way the government can finance the rebuild of Christchurch without creating debt is to liquidate the $12.5 billion in the Cullen fund. And the sooner, the better.
Capex has to come from somewhere. Good businesses will not just pay for assets from debt, but will retain some profit to fund expansion. Rebuilding Christchurch is going to cost far, far, more than $12bn. (The question of whether it is worth rebuilding is another question: almost certainly not, but we will do it anyway)
To get say $12Bn a year for the next ten years we have at least four options:
a) stop all state health spending
b) stop all state education spending
c) stop all welfare spending except super
d) stop all super spending.
Any of those options would yeild about $12Bn with no increase in state debt. Chopping education spending would of course most likely lead to a direct increase in private debt as families borrowed to pay fees; health would be similar. That’s why options c) and d) are the best as beneficiaries and superannuitants have the least capacity to create private debt.
This also shows why partial privatization, and privatization to Kiwis simply don’t achieve debt reduction. Only full privatization to overseas owners reduces NZ’s nett debt. This is why the only reasonable response to the earthquake is a) to liquidate the Cullen fund; b) to dispose of as many assets as possible overseas; c) to eliminate the welfare and super spend.
Mar 14 11 4:54 pm
So, the private debt blowout from approx. $90 billion to approx. $225 billion during the Labour Govt (99-08) was all the Govt’s fault???
If you can point me to some data where the 99-08 Labour Govt wasted approx. $135 billion of surplus (aka over-taxation) I’d be much obliged.
Mar 14 11 5:27 pm
Of course it was. Because the govt took an extra $135Bn, wasted it on benefits, super, heath, “education” etc etc, NZ was forced to borrow overseas. Basic economics.
Oh, and I realise I made a mistake above: although the Cullen fund should be liquidated, it shoiuldn’t be used to retire (govt) debt. Rather it should be returned to those who were overtaxed to pay for it – say high-value taxpayers (over $250K pa income) and high-value corporates (over $25M).
Mar 14 11 5:57 pm
I asked for data. There’s two (maybe more) scenarios:
a) the Govt raped private NZ to the tune of $135 billion during 99-08 which has caused this mess
b) the Govt raped private NZ to the tune of considerably less than $135 billion and the pickle we’re in is as much the private sector’s fault as Govt’s.
Again, I asked for data. Not a blind faith statement.
Mar 15 11 10:42 pm
The great thing about you sinner is that you say what all tories think but are too scared to verbalise, It’s true you’re an absolute moron and you tell blatant lies, but you don’t dress things up with sophistry and turgid, economically illiterate nonsense like MacDoctor (stick to prescribing valium to bored housewives there chief). Keep telling it like you think it is bud.
Mar 18 11 2:42 pm
Even if you were correct that an increase of a dollar in tax = an increase a dollar in private debt (which is wrong). Your argument fails because if govt debt in nz is about 20% of gdp and private debt is about 80% when you eliminate all of the govt debt that still leaves our country 60% in debt. So who is responsible for that debt?
Mar 18 11 9:52 pm
Nowhere in my post did I suggest for a moment that all private debt is related to government spending. Clearly that is not so. Nor do I suggest that the ratio is necessarily one to one. In fact, because private borrowing is usually considerably more expensive than public borrowing, one dollar of taxation will probably produce more than one dollar of private debt.
The other thing you clearly do not appreciate is that government overspending is cumulative. The longer it goes on for, the larger the amount of private debt is accumulated.
As to who is responsible for the difference in debt – this question is completely meaningless. You could say this is from government overspending, but you could equally say that this is from people living beyond their means or a consequence of the recession. These things are all equally true and intimately linked. In fact, merely subtracting government debt from private debt produces a meaningless figure.
But go ahead and make a meaningless argument using a pointless question about a nonsensical figure. It is very Keynesian.
Mar 21 11 10:42 am
Your comment suggests that your new equation/logic seems to be: one dollar of govt debt has a multiplier effect on private debt. But you also assert that private debt is accumulated by the taxpayer to make up for consumption that is lost from taxation, but if i am taxed 10 dollars more why would i borrow 40 to make up the difference?
Also think about the individual borrowers thought process: they do not consider the government debt or their % of income lost in taxation before they get a credit card – they decide whether or not the lending is affordable then they do it.
Mar 21 11 5:26 pm
Dear Doctor,
In your original post you state: “Unfortunately, Mr. Cunliffe fails to understand that a decade of profligate government spending driven by Labour has caused the private debt blow-out.”
Yet in the comments section you say: “Nowhere in my post did I suggest for a moment that all private debt is related to government spending. Clearly that is not so.”
Please, reconcile those statements.
Mar 23 11 8:40 am
You don’t really expect him to do that do you? He might insult you, but back up his assertions? Nah.
Mar 24 11 9:47 pm
carry on Sludge. The financial ineptitude of you paid lapbloggers is awesome. I am so looking forward to coming government bankruptcies. The likes of you lot will be quickly dispensed with, as governments will be forced to limit their outgoings, and the minions will be sacrificed first to save the heirachy’s butts initially (their time will come, although their taxpayer funded schemes may indeed protect them). So once your income is gone, and the govt can’t afford more than 3 months of carrying your sorry soul on the dole, the bank will take possession of your house, and there Me or someone like me will be, bidding at the mortgagee auction, and paying 30-50c in the dollar on its value, and then you’ll be forced to rent one of our lower class houses next to the smelly working class…. oh noes~!!!! You might even have to sit next to them on public transport as your car would have been repossessed.
All your “I hate Tories” dreams will have come true, because you will be able to see it is one of them bastards that now owns my house, and another one gave my car to his daughter, and another one now has all my kiwisaver funds because they expensed it out as fees or lost it in the greatmelt down of govt bankruptcies. NZ’s own Weimar republic is headed our way because Your lot are so inept they have no idea that the seeds have sown over the past 50 years are sprouting and killing off the productive crop which formerly fed and nutured the patch. Mind you, National are equally to blame because they haven’t done a thing to weed the produce patch either.
In the meantime, a word of warning, don’t let the new Ginga lapblogger ply your son with too much booze at the BBQ come Easter, unless of course you pack the vagrant off in a taxi on his own
Mar 25 11 1:07 pm
Mate, you’re really weird.
Mar 24 11 8:45 pm
My bet is the Cullen Fund will be redirected to purchase government bonds, and thus the cycle will be complete. The over taxation will be spent on buying govt debt, and the parlous state of NZ govt finance will go full circle, with taxes funding debt, funding debt.