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	<title>Comments on: The Herald Votes Yes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/</link>
	<description>Politics and Medicine: A Lethal Combination</description>
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		<title>By: Kiwi Polemicist</title>
		<link>http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/comment-page-1/#comment-3993</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiwi Polemicist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/?p=2630#comment-3993</guid>
		<description>Good post. Business as usual at the Harold, trumpeting the state&#039;s message.

&lt;i&gt;The word for a law that everyone is afraid of and nobody wants is tyranny&lt;/i&gt;

True, and such a law is also terrorism. &lt;b&gt;I believe that the anti-smacking law is designed to facilitate state terrorism directed at parents&lt;/b&gt;. The state has a desire to control the raising of every child in this country and is doing so by inspiring every parent with dread (which is the essence of terrorism) regarding what will happen if they parent in a  manner that the state does not approve of. This is utterly evil.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/the-anti-smacking-law-lets-citizens-be-agents-of-state-terrorism/

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/who-are-the-police-really-serving/ (Clue: it&#039;s not you)
.-= Kiwi Polemicist&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/thinking-about-state-schools/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;• Thinking about state schools&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. Business as usual at the Harold, trumpeting the state&#8217;s message.</p>
<p><i>The word for a law that everyone is afraid of and nobody wants is tyranny</i></p>
<p>True, and such a law is also terrorism. <b>I believe that the anti-smacking law is designed to facilitate state terrorism directed at parents</b>. The state has a desire to control the raising of every child in this country and is doing so by inspiring every parent with dread (which is the essence of terrorism) regarding what will happen if they parent in a  manner that the state does not approve of. This is utterly evil.</p>
<p><a href="http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/the-anti-smacking-law-lets-citizens-be-agents-of-state-terrorism/" rel="nofollow">http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/the-anti-smacking-law-lets-citizens-be-agents-of-state-terrorism/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/who-are-the-police-really-serving/" rel="nofollow">http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/who-are-the-police-really-serving/</a> (Clue: it&#8217;s not you)<br />
<span class="cluv"> Kiwi Polemicist&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/thinking-about-state-schools/" rel="nofollow">• Thinking about state schools</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: ZenTiger</title>
		<link>http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/comment-page-1/#comment-3981</link>
		<dc:creator>ZenTiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/?p=2630#comment-3981</guid>
		<description>The Sunday Star Times has essentially weighed in on the YES vote.  Their inability to fake balance stems from the fact they don&#039;t actually understand what the referendum is about.

Running an article on how successful some parents are not using physical discipline is besides the point.  The law change made all forms of discipline (correction) technically illegal.  It&#039;s made it illegal on the basis that there is only one correct way to raise children, and disregard the possibility parents use a combination of techniques, some of which may legitimately include a smack.

I make that point here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://nzconservative.blogspot.com/2009/07/sue-bradford-proposes-law-change.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sue Bradford has an about face&lt;/a&gt;
.-= ZenTiger&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://nzconservative.blogspot.com/2009/07/sue-bradford-proposes-law-change.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sue Bradford Proposes Law Change&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Sunday Star Times has essentially weighed in on the YES vote.  Their inability to fake balance stems from the fact they don&#8217;t actually understand what the referendum is about.</p>
<p>Running an article on how successful some parents are not using physical discipline is besides the point.  The law change made all forms of discipline (correction) technically illegal.  It&#8217;s made it illegal on the basis that there is only one correct way to raise children, and disregard the possibility parents use a combination of techniques, some of which may legitimately include a smack.</p>
<p>I make that point here: <a href="http://nzconservative.blogspot.com/2009/07/sue-bradford-proposes-law-change.html" rel="nofollow">Sue Bradford has an about face</a><br />
<span class="cluv"> ZenTiger&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://nzconservative.blogspot.com/2009/07/sue-bradford-proposes-law-change.html" rel="nofollow">Sue Bradford Proposes Law Change</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: MacDoctor</title>
		<link>http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/comment-page-1/#comment-3980</link>
		<dc:creator>MacDoctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/?p=2630#comment-3980</guid>
		<description>Mark: &lt;i&gt;Do you think the law change is preventing many parents smacking their children or not?&lt;/i&gt;

Nice to see you keep track of my arguments, Mark! In this post, I am merely commenting on the extent of the decreasing in smacking as depicted in this simple poll. I think it is likely to be less than this poll is suggesting. That does not mean that the repeal has not had a very substantial effect on the incidence of smacking (it&#039;s just unlikely to be quite that large an effect)

So,yes, the repeal of s59 has had a very real effect on smacking behavior due to the uncertainty generated by the law. Unfortunately, the drop off in smacking, regardless of the size of the effect will almost certainly be in the area of legitimate discipline. Those who hit their children in anger and frustration will remain unaffected by the law, as their actions were almost certainly illegal prior to the law change.

If even 5% of parents stop or markedly reduce their smacking for legitimate correction &lt;i&gt;and do not substitute some other form of discipline&lt;/i&gt;, we will be reaping a veritable plague of entitled, self-indulgent adults and all hope of reducing our prison population will end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark: <i>Do you think the law change is preventing many parents smacking their children or not?</i></p>
<p>Nice to see you keep track of my arguments, Mark! In this post, I am merely commenting on the extent of the decreasing in smacking as depicted in this simple poll. I think it is likely to be less than this poll is suggesting. That does not mean that the repeal has not had a very substantial effect on the incidence of smacking (it&#8217;s just unlikely to be quite that large an effect)</p>
<p>So,yes, the repeal of s59 has had a very real effect on smacking behavior due to the uncertainty generated by the law. Unfortunately, the drop off in smacking, regardless of the size of the effect will almost certainly be in the area of legitimate discipline. Those who hit their children in anger and frustration will remain unaffected by the law, as their actions were almost certainly illegal prior to the law change.</p>
<p>If even 5% of parents stop or markedly reduce their smacking for legitimate correction <i>and do not substitute some other form of discipline</i>, we will be reaping a veritable plague of entitled, self-indulgent adults and all hope of reducing our prison population will end.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/2009/07/26/the-herald-votes-yes/comment-page-1/#comment-3979</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macdoctor.co.nz/?p=2630#comment-3979</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little confused. Some time ago you made what to me is the only plausible case I&#039;ve heard against the law change, saying that you see evidence of many parents not smacking because they&#039;re unsure of the legality. Now you say, &quot;I expect the law to have some dampening effect on smacking, but I think this level of effect is just wishful thinking&quot;.

Do you think the law change is preventing many parents smacking their children or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little confused. Some time ago you made what to me is the only plausible case I&#8217;ve heard against the law change, saying that you see evidence of many parents not smacking because they&#8217;re unsure of the legality. Now you say, &#8220;I expect the law to have some dampening effect on smacking, but I think this level of effect is just wishful thinking&#8221;.</p>
<p>Do you think the law change is preventing many parents smacking their children or not?</p>
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